Curse

kolakoski · Jan 22, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrnne

Most missions will turn out just fine if just 3 of the 8 players know what they're doing. If you wind up with clueless players on your team, it's just more of a challenge.

Well met!

Great attitude, IMHO. I personally enjoy playing the Lone Ranger in PUGs. 99% of the time there is SOMEONE worthy of friendship. Feel free to add me to your friends list.

Wo Tan Ki (KoS) currently R/E

Zinger314 · Jan 22, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Exactly. No one changes their bars when I ask them to, I have purely given up on idiot pugs in this game. Im struggling enough trying to get through this mission with hench, I need 7 heroes ASAP.

If you can't beat the game with Henchmen, that's your problem, not the game's. Many people have beaten the game with Heroes/Henchmen. Don't blame the game.

gene terrodon · Jan 22, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by grottoftl

I'm a pro-pugger and I know that you don't have to PuG to enjoy the MMO experience of the game! if you didn't notice those people who don't like to PuG, do enjoy the MMO experience of guild wars. they socialize with others in towns and like being part of a guild. quit saying the PvE part of the game should be an offline game when a few players prefer playing missions with heroes and henchmen, the still like the online atmosphere.

that's the dumbest thing I've read

I really don't call engaging in childish arguments being social.
Most conversations in outposts are either 1)Sexual in nature or 2)just plain ol' ignorant.
Furthermore, if I wanted to go online and chat, I would go to a chatroom. Why would I pay 50, 100, 150 for what amounts to, per your point above, a online chat program. That's absurd.
My point about PvE being offline is valid. Chatting in an outpost is not playing PvE, it's chatting in an outpost. There is a distinct difference. The MMO experience, as related to PvE is dying down, for more reasons than one. My argument is that 7 heroes will further diminish the PUG pool, making the game less enjoyable to those who like to PvE in live groups.

Also, if you're not getting paid to PUG, you're not a pro, and if you are getting paid, please send me an application.

Tyrnne · Jan 23, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene terrodon

Most conversations in outposts are either 1)Sexual in nature or 2)just plain ol' ignorant.

Agree with 2) although it's not a big deal

I don't think 1) is really true, except in beginner areas like Ascalon or Shing Jea Monastery

bhavv · Jan 23, 2007, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

If you can't beat the game with Henchmen, that's your problem, not the game's. Many people have beaten the game with Heroes/Henchmen. Don't blame the game.

You fail to misunderstand. You can beat the game with henchmen, but you cant get masters on Jenners horde or Dzagonar Bastion at least with them. Its too difficult with pugs that dont have a clue what there doing as well. I got masters on the former with a guildie and 6 heroes, and am leaving the second untill the end of the game.

Zinger314 · Jan 23, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

You fail to misunderstand. You can beat the game with henchmen, but you cant get masters on Jenners horde or Dzagonar Bastion at least with them. Its too difficult with pugs that dont have a clue what there doing as well. I got masters on the former with a guildie and 6 heroes, and am leaving the second untill the end of the game.

Got Masters on Dzagonaur Bastion in two tries with Heroes/Henchmen (because I had thought you needed 6 defenses intact, I had 5 the first time, and I reset), and I also did Jennur's Horde with Heroes/Henchmen (Jennur's is easier, when you realize it's Red Light/Green Light and you have some patience.)

As I said, you lack tactical skill.

Kayleen Ajzurion · Jan 23, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I think part of the problem that we can't have 7 heroes is because all those hero skill bars would flood the screen. heck even with 3, a pretty big portion of my playing screen is taken, and I even reduced the other stuff(health, energy, party window...)

cellardweller · Jan 24, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

One thing I don't get with people who say that "heros are bad for pugs so they should be limited/removed" is why you want to play with people that don't want to play with you?

ValaOfTheFens · Jan 24, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Got Masters on Dzagonaur Bastion in two tries with Heroes/Henchmen (because I had thought you needed 6 defenses intact, I had 5 the first time, and I reset), and I also did Jennur's Horde with Heroes/Henchmen (Jennur's is easier, when you realize it's Red Light/Green Light and you have some patience.)

As I said, you lack tactical skill.

Its sort of hard for people to give credence to what you say when you're continually insulting them. Methods of success vary from person to person. I've come far henching/heroing everything but other might not have the same results. I happen to be working on Dzagonaur Bastion now and am finding it difficult to beat. Does that mean I lack skill? No. I'm making mistakes, learning from them, and trying new things. Few people are born with the tactical skills of a four star general and they actually have to work at things to get good at them.

Zinger314 · Jan 24, 2007, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

Its sort of hard for people to give credence to what you say when you're continually insulting them. Methods of success vary from person to person. I've come far henching/heroing everything but other might not have the same results. I happen to be working on Dzagonaur Bastion now and am finding it difficult to beat. Does that mean I lack skill? No. I'm making mistakes, learning from them, and trying new things. Few people are born with the tactical skills of a four star general and they actually have to work at things to get good at them.

Not exactly. I was responding to bhavv's ridiculous claim that you need 7 Heroes to get Masters on those missions. I take that personally.

strcpy · Jan 24, 2007, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

You fail to misunderstand. You can beat the game with henchmen, but you cant get masters on Jenners horde or Dzagonar Bastion at least with them. Its too difficult with pugs that dont have a clue what there doing as well. I got masters on the former with a guildie and 6 heroes, and am leaving the second untill the end of the game.

I have three swords on those two missions with only hero/hench. Dzoganar I was just trying to play through and got masters.

I was trying for masters on Jennur's Horde, got expert because I didn't destroy the Margonites with the second Harbinger (I hadn't read the wiki page telling that and followed the in game instructions, never knew why I didn't get it until much later). Obviously would not have been any great deal to bother to do so as I did the hard part.

The only time a bonus or masters is really hard is when you have to split your team up (say, bonus on Dunes of Despair). Even then others have done it - many even before we could flag them to split the team up.

The hench are only as good as you are. Every mission and bonus in the game is doable with them.

I would also like to have a full party of heroes to play with team builds. I enjoy that a great deal, I would like to see hero battles at 6v6 and 8v8 also. But none of it is required to clear pretty much anything - heck go look in the Elona explorer section and Mallyx has been hero-way'd now.

SotiCoto · Jan 24, 2007, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayleen Ajzurion

I think part of the problem that we can't have 7 heroes is because all those hero skill bars would flood the screen. heck even with 3, a pretty big portion of my playing screen is taken, and I even reduced the other stuff(health, energy, party window...)

You actually bother to have ALL the hero info bars open ALL of the time?! o_0;; ...

Y'know... it makes the gameplay much more efficient to give the heroes skill-sets that they can actually use themselves to good effect and not have to be manually hand-walked through (which saves having to allocate a portion of your own time away from your own actions to control theirs).

I only ever open the hero info bars in outposts to either make mention of their skills to other people.... or to test the effects of various items on health / energy levels.

Lonesamurai · Jan 24, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

You actually bother to have ALL the hero info bars open ALL of the time?! o_0;; ...

Y'know... it makes the gameplay much more efficient to give the heroes skill-sets that they can actually use themselves to good effect and not have to be manually hand-walked through (which saves having to allocate a portion of your own time away from your own actions to control theirs).

I only ever open the hero info bars in outposts to either make mention of their skills to other people.... or to test the effects of various items on health / energy levels.

then like most PvE'ers you haven't got a clue about hero and hench management

You have the three open so you can see what they are using, and to make sure energy management is not an issue... besides the fact that heroes don't always use skills and you have to tell them to manually use them...

FFS, thats not even taking into account the ability to see what enchants, conditions are on them and what their DP is at

bhavv · Jan 24, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Not exactly. I was responding to bhavv's ridiculous claim that you need 7 Heroes to get Masters on those missions. I take that personally.

Meh, I havnt got master of whispers so havnt actually attempted Dzagonars with all hench. From what I saw of it when I pugged, you do need to split the team to take out different groups, but I'll give it another go when I get MOW.

ok, try to get through tomb of the primeval kings with hero + hench. Im preety sure thats undoable, and I cant ever find a group there cos im not a ranger or necro or monk.

Anyway, besides the comments of trying to justify using 7 heroes to make more areas of the game accessible, the main reason why I and most of the others here want to use them is because they would find it fun. Allowing us to use 7 heroes in PVE doesnt in any way affect other peoples gaming experience, it only affects your own experience. If you dont want to use them, you dont have to, you just would be able to if you enjoy playing with all heroes.

To the above post, it rarely makes a differnce if you have all the bars open, unless you have a skill somewhere you want to trigger manually like SB or fall back. Leaving the bars closed is fine, and, actually using 7 hero bars would be completely possible on higher resolutions anyway.

Tyrnne · Jan 24, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

ok, try to get through tomb of the primeval kings with hero + hench. Im preety sure thats undoable, and I cant ever find a group there cos im not a ranger or necro or monk.

You're right - TOPK is the only place I've seen where tanks are outright shunned. It's not always easy for a monk to hitch a ride either since most groups just take one.

Although I have to wonder if heroes would do much better than henches there.

strcpy · Jan 24, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

ok, try to get through tomb of the primeval kings with hero + hench. Im preety sure thats undoable, and I cant ever find a group there cos im not a ranger or necro or monk.

Been there, done that with hench. I haven't fooled with my Dervish and her heroes there yet. Nor am I the only one to do so, do a search on the forums and you should even find screenshots of others who have done it. It's slow and you better have a hard rez and not fear running, but doable. I didn't find it particularly fun with them, it was too slow.

There is not a single area in the game where you are allowed a full party of AI constructs that is not doable. It may be slow and you may get the occasional spawn that wipes your party where a human group wouldn't, but it is doable.

Mallyx has been beaten by three humans and the rest AI. While not solo with hero/hench it is pretty durn close and MUCH harder than ToPK.

Perkunas · Jan 26, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

"You gave me this, now I want more. Give me more non-humans to play a MULTI_PLAYER game."